Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Beckett 5/17/2018 12:25 AM

Reguile.

In what capacity do you ask?

Do you think they are truly separate?

12:26 AM

If not, what do you think they are?

I've talked a lot about the idea of abstraction recently

12:27 AM

which I may start calling "constructs" to be more accurate and get away from a term that people use in actual psychology

I have not seen it, start from scratch, please.

to start with, I don't think that tulpa are independent

Alright.

As in: I think it's literally physically impossible for a thing like that to be true in the brain.

12:28 AM

Either the brain is too interconnected for there to be real "independent" thought, or the brain is just too bad at multitasking to handle the workload of two independent thinking "deep" tasks (edited)

12:29 AM

The source from which I think tulpa derive is a tendency for people to "bundle" series of emotions, thoughts, feelings, actions, and so on

12:29 AM

I used nervousness as an example

12:29 AM

or being lonely

12:29 AM

to be lonely is to be sad for a reason

12:29 AM

but we sort of "bundle" that into a single thing for understanding. Even if we don't have a "lonely" we can still feel lonely

Slow down.

12:30 AM

You are losing me.

Where are you confused?

The bundle part.

12:30 AM

Also, do you not think that tulpas can think while the host is not?

I think that there is largely a single underlying "host" (not the first identity) that is capable of thought and action, and consists of all the tulpa and the host (the first identity)

12:32 AM

Sete, if you lack something kind to say please keep it to yourself

That is interesting.

12:32 AM

Do you have any evidence to back this?

They are my thoughts on the matter, what I gather from what I have seen and learned in general

12:33 AM

I can't point to "well, because this here is crooked in this direction then..."

12:33 AM

I can point you to studies on parallel processing

Is that no? You did not start this with a certain thing in mind?

or explain why I think this idea of tulpa is a good one

Please, do.

12:33 AM

Both of those things.

[I will talk if I want to... Though in this case I was just gunna say your definition of host so meh.]

"Because the brain cannot fully focus when multitasking, people take longer to complete tasks and are predisposed to error. When people attempt to complete many tasks at one time, “or [alternate] rapidly between them, errors go way up, and it takes far longer—often double the time or more—to get the jobs done than if they were done sequentially,” states Meyer.[8] This is largely because “the brain is compelled to restart and refocus”.[9] A study by Meyer and David Kieras found that in the interim between each exchange, the brain makes no progress whatsoever. Therefore, multitasking people not only perform each task less suitably, but lose time in the process."

12:35 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_multitasking

Human multitasking

Human multitasking is an apparent human ability to perform more than one task, or activity, over a short period (1 hour). An example of multitasking is taking phone calls while typing an email and reading a book. Multitasking can result in time w...

12:35 AM

you can get the general impression on multitasking from there

Alright.

12:35 AM

I have read on multitasking before.

the latter is harder to explain because I generally just gather my thoughts from a broad range of "stuff"

I thought that you were using parallel processing specifically.

12:36 AM

I see. I do think we hold a similar belief.

To build up, however, I think that when people make tulpa we take a ton of things and "bundle" them all together

I do think I understand what you mean, in a way. For example, I am very serious, so when I created a tulpa, she became the opposite of serious.

associations between things, knowledge of a personality, habits, little tiny subconscious ques and triggers, muscles being tensioned, and so on and so forth all sort of come together to create a "construct" from which we can have multiple things in our head which we can hold conversations with. Because a lot of this stuff is derived from the chaotic and very hard to observe nature of your head, it can very well be "on it's own' in a strong sense.

hello!

Hello.

12:39 AM

Is that what you mean?

I don't really think so, I think you're thinking more "a tulpa is related to being not serious"?

I do think she shows many of the characteristics that I do not often express. Blatantly being rude, loudness, joking often and so on, so I use her as an outlet to express these things.

I think it goes way beyond that where a tulpa may be constructed of a thousand different tiny little soruces, one of which would be if a thought is serious or not.

I am a tulpa.

12:40 AM

Clearly, I do think tulpas can be serious.

12:40 AM

More, she is my version of an ideal way to express the things that I have trouble expressing.

I mean more in the sense that you were saying that a tulpa is produced by "being part of what the brain does"?

Excuse me?

I think I nkow what you're saying, sorry, I'm not saying it right

I do think other things can be involved. I do think, for example, though my host personality forced me, I ended up being very much like his friend that was murdered, is not just a coincidence. I do think it was a way to cope.

Like, imagine you have a "source of thought". The serious thoughts become Harleen and the not-as-serious ones become "not-harleen"

What do you make of this?

is that what you mean?

I am unsure.

sorry, we've been ignoring you will, I forgot to say hello

I do think that often times, people create tulpas to be an ideal version of something, of course they are bound to fail and not be ideal, however I do think that they are often used to express things that the whole person has a problem expressing.

Okay, I was assuming you were talking more on "deep" mechanisms that would explain how exactly a tulpa is possible, rather than why they are created or what purpose they are serving

12:46 AM

I very much agree on that latter point, I think there is a lot of tulpas saying stuff that the host is too scared to say or doesn't want to say becuase they don't identify with that sort of action

I thought you were explaining the purpose, with the bundles.

I was more trying to explain how exactly "tulpa" would be possible and what the most likely explanation was

12:47 AM

the bundle is something that goes on "behind the scenes"

Oh, I see.

What you feel is "tulpa is talking"

I do not understand your bundles then, no.

the bundle is like a black box with ltos of gears you've built in it, but it's not a black box in that you cannot access it, but that you don't access it

12:47 AM

maybe that's badly phrased

@Reguile Out of curiosity, according to that model, would you consider disagreements between a tulpa and host to be a kind of coping mechanism for cognitive dissonance?

ever smelled something and then "had a memory"?

No.

I'm not sure about that winter

12:48 AM

I think it's possible, but I also think disagreements can be driven by stuff like the tulpa having a personality that makes them say something and the host has a personality that makes them say the other thing (edited)

12:49 AM

ever had an association, like tried to step off a staircase that wasn't there and felt your stomach go "woo"

12:49 AM

stuff like that, little things that are out of your control

12:49 AM

but are also set in place very much by your actions

12:49 AM

When I think of a good explanation for tulpa I like to think that a tulpa is a few thousand of those built up over time

12:50 AM

with it starting of just a few mechanisms making a tulpa very hard to speak

12:50 AM

but with time the mechanisms build in number and strength and the tulpa begins to do more and the host is more practiced

12:50 AM

and this isn't purely tulpa host

12:50 AM

I tend to just say that because it's convenient

12:50 AM

"host" can be just as much constructed and toyed with as "tulpa" can

12:51 AM

The only "host" I hold strict to is my view that a person is a single person in general

12:51 AM

but "person" is a very loose wording

Interesting.

I don't mean that to say that "tulpa isn't person" but that "host and tulpa and such are one very well connected being"

I do agree, however I do disagree on the way, I believe.

Ah. I don't necessarily disagree with you, Reguile - primarily I was thinking of how you would consider these disagreements in thought and how you would explain them with regard to the "bundle" and this specific quote:

12:52 AM

Like, imagine you have a "source of thought".  The serious thoughts become Harleen and the not-as-serious ones become "not-harleen"

I think that quote would be one of the "mechanisms" that would lend towards making a tulpa think (edited)

12:53 AM

but that that mechanism alone is not enough at all

Alright.

This is interesting, however I will need to step away soon.

12:53 AM

Mother will be home and we planned to play games together.

sounds like fun